Curse

pigdestroyer · Mar 27, 2006, 11:53 PM // 23:53

My guild plays a descent balanced team in GvG we do really good untill we find a spike team with the PP/SD then spike combo... is there any way to counter this kind of spike?

Vindexus · Mar 28, 2006, 12:16 AM // 00:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by pigdestroyer

My guild plays a descent balanced team in GvG we do really good untill we find a spike team with the PP/SD then spike combo... is there any way to counter this kind of spike?

It would really help if you posted the build you've been running.

pigdestroyer · Mar 28, 2006, 12:27 AM // 00:27

ok then:

Monk 1:
Boon protector (Mo/Me)
superior rune of protection prayers
Superior rune of divine favor
Superior rune of vigor
protections : 16
divine favor : 11
inspiration magic: 10

1) reversal of fortune
2) prot spirit
3) guardian
4) aegis
5) drain enchantment
6) mantra of recall (ELIT)
7) divine boon
8) rez sig

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Monk 2:
Boon protector (Mo/N)
superior rune of protection prayers
Superior rune of divine favor
Superior rune of vigor
protections : 16
divine favor : 11
inspiration magic: 10

1) reversal of fortune
2) mend aliment
3) remove hex
4) aegis
5) inspired hex
6) Mantra of recall (ELIT)
7) divine boon
8) rez sig

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Monk 3:
healer (Mo/W)
superior rune of healing prayers
minor rune of divine favor
Healing : 16
Divne favor : 13

1) Word of healing (ELIT)
2) heal other
3) dwyanas kiss
4) healing touch
5) signet of devotion
6) Heal party
7) sprint
8) rez sig

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ele 1:
Spiker (E/Me)
Superior rune of Air magic
superior rune of vigor
minor rune of energy storage

1) enervating charge
2) Lightning orb
3) Lightning stike
4) lightning javelin
5) arcane echo
6) air attunement
7) Elemental Attunement (ELIT)
8) rez sig

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ele 2:
Spiker (E/Me)
Superior rune of Air magic
superior rune of vigor
minor rune of energy storage

1) enervating charge
2) Lightning orb
3) Lightning stike
4) lightning javelin
5) arcane echo
6) air attunement
7) Elemental Attunement (ELIT)
8) rez sig

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Necro:
Hexer (N/--)
Superior rune of Curses
Superior rune of blood magic
Superior rune of vigor
minor rune soul reaping
Curses: 16
Blood: 12
soul: 10

1) Offering of blood (ELIT)
2) life siphon
3) malaise
4) Fainthertedness
5) mark of suversion
6) suffering
7) well of profane
8) rez sig

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Warrior 1:
Gale warrior (W/E)
Superior rune of absortion
Superior rune of vigor
Superior rune of axe mastery
minor rune of strenth
axe: 16
Strenth: 11
Air: 8
energy 25-27

1) Eviserate
2) axe rake
3) disrupting chop
4) endure pain
5) sprint
6) frenzy
7) gale
8) rez sig

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Warrior 2:
Gale warrior (W/E)
Superior rune of absortion
Superior rune of vigor
Superior rune of axe mastery
minor rune of strenth
axe: 16
Strenth: 11
Air: 8
energy 25-27

1) Eviserate
2) axe rake
3) disrupting chop
4) executioners strike
5) sprint
6) frenzy
7) gale
8) rez sig

tafy69 · Mar 28, 2006, 06:24 AM // 06:24

If you want basic things that will help your build while keeping the focus the same then here goes:

Give the Mo/W runner of yours Infuse Health, when you come across a spike team get another character to run the flag.

I dont know how effective your build is with 1 necro doing hexes and no blind on the Air Eles. Put blinding flash on the Air ele so you have a better chance on Ranger spike and normal builds in general.

Im assuming you play the adrenaline spike to kill targets, otherwise I cant see you killing much. In that case I would personally replace a Character with a Domination mesmer with Shater Enchant and some interupts and a blackout/diversion.

Oh and replace Archane Echo with Cry of Fustration too, dont know why you get echo on an air ele lol

Patrograd · Mar 28, 2006, 06:56 AM // 06:56

The best way to beat a spike team is to get right into their faces and smash away. Many people will advise you to split, but a good spike team will be expecting this and the really good ones will be built for it (Charge and other speed buffs plus alot of snares) and will hunt down your split squads and kill them very easily. Warriors and Domination mesmers are the key to this, as they are to so much else.

So my experience would be, get stuck in and disrupt that spike, make them kite, interrupt their skills, throw in diversions, blackouts and e-denial. Stop them working. You'll take a few deaths in all probability, but you cant have everything.

Clusmas · Mar 28, 2006, 07:02 AM // 07:02

While the monks are very worried about catching the spike, the rest of your team should be very very worried about disrupting the spike. Aim to remove a leg of their spike.

Skills you already have to do that:
Disrupting Chop (have you considered distracting blow?)
Gale
Fainthertedness (you can spread out a ranger spike, making it easier to catch)

A spike team gets its power from keeping up momentum, take away the momentum and you take away their strength.

And as far as catching goes, your first boon prot should use prot spirit and your second rof. It's sometimes very difficult to catch a well coordinated spike however, so you cannot even consider relying solely on your monks to take away the threat. (Although against a bad spike team that is a perfectly feasible option :P)

Wasteland Squidget · Mar 28, 2006, 07:26 AM // 07:26

I'd have some suggestions to make on you build in general, but as far as specific spike counters...

First off, recognize how spikes work.

1. A pure spike team typically has very little pressure outside of their spike. They aren't really doing much damage to speak of until they spike. Thus, you'll typically know when a spike is coming by the fact that all of their casters start to actually do something.

2. A spike is designed to kill someone so fast that the monks can't react. If a spike (for whatever reason) fails to kill, then its been defeated. Even if the spiked target ends up with only 10 HP when the spike is over, the spikers may as well not have bothered because if your monks are at all on their toes a heal will hit the target before they can use their afterspike. Once a spike is over you typically have around 10 seconds before they start the next one.

Thus, as far as defense you need spells that keep the target alive at any cost. As mentioned above, your protection monks should be using RoF or Prot Spirit, and your healing monk should have Infuse Health. Only these spells are fast enough to hit during a spike and save a target.

More offensively, you should be disrupting their spike whenever they start using it. Figure out what skills they're using to spike and watch for them, then disrupt the spiking characters with Gales or interrupts when you see the spike coming. This should mitigate the spike damage and give your monks a much better chance to save the target.

Once you've got the defense under control I find it's often best to send a gank squad around the back of their base. Not usually a 4-4 split, but just 2 or 3 guys who are capable of killing their NPCs and flag runner (a warrior and a support guy with some kind of snare usually help.) Gank their runner so you're ensured morale (morale is a huge help against spike teams since high health and res sigs lessen the impact of their spikes) and then start killing NPCs. If your gankers are set up right you should be able to gradually drop the bodyguards and NPCs surrounding the guild lord.

This way the spikers either have to retreat into their base to save their lord, or split. If a spike team splits then they typically don't have enough damage to actually kill a target with one spike, so they tend to get much weaker as a result. If they pull into the base you're guaranteed more morale and have the positioning advantage, since they can't easily get a flag past.

From there you have the option of either whittling down their guys gradually (certainly possible against some spike teams) or waiting until VoD, at which stage they'll lose their NPC advantage and you have a decent shot at ganking their lord.

linh · Mar 28, 2006, 08:20 AM // 08:20

I am quite surprise that both your boon monks have 2 superior runes. That will be terrible because their health will be very low and easy to die when being spiked. And monk shouldn't bring res skills as well. Both Monks bring Inspired Hex to manage energy too, Remove Hex is terrible for a monk because of 2s casting time. Aegis is expensive skill for monk, and both boon monk bring it is not good at all. The Healer Monk should brings Infuse Health.
One or two warrior should bring Shield Up to counter Ranger Spike, it works well. Air Ele bring Blinding Flash to shut down Warrior and Ranger. Lightning Javelin is crap IMO. And Mind Shock will help spike target better.
Against spike team, Mesmer with Cry of Frustration will also help a lot. With mixed spike like PP/SH, maybe you can guess target when see a hex casted on a party member.
And a spike team is often not flexible, so if you fail to fight 8vs8, try to split and avoid fighting with them when they have a large group.

Patrograd · Mar 28, 2006, 10:01 AM // 10:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by linhlh

One or two warrior should bring Shield Up to counter Ranger Spike, it works well. .

I like shields up, but not because it counters ranger spike, because it doesnt most of the time. If the ranger spikers see shields up, and lets face it they cant miss that big speech bubble, they will just rigor their targets and the extra armour isnt enough to stop the spike from 4 rangers unless its a ragged one, in which case you would have caught it anyway. Dont get me wrong, it doesnt hurt, and if you have it then it will slow down the frequency of the spike for the (very short) duration of the skill, but I wouldnt think of it as a direct counter.

Personally I find shields up is best employed for turtle assaults as it lets you get in there under that annoying pin down barrage from the NPCs and I would bring it for that if nothing else. Its also good against ranger interrupt skills so worthy of a spot on that basis too IMHO, but not as a counter to good ranger spiking, so i dont think the second copy is justified.

JR · Mar 28, 2006, 10:45 AM // 10:45

The main thing to remember with spike, is you can't heal a good spike. No matter how ****hot your infuser is, if you let the other team pull off decent spikes he wont catch them. Having enough disruption build into your build is key if you plan to face them 8 vs 8. Blackout, Gale, Cry of Frustration, Savage Shot... All skills that will be extremely usefull if you can build them in.

The alternative is splitting. This is slightly risky though, as most spike based guilds will be using the fire map. However if you face them on a different map, you stand a very good chance of being able to run them around with enough mobility.

Permasiel · Mar 28, 2006, 10:57 AM // 10:57

Just get rid of most sup runes on casters and it should be ok.
I mean, 2 sup runes on blood and curses for a necro?

Phrozenflame · Mar 28, 2006, 02:32 PM // 14:32

Make your Ele carry the blind, Yea it gets removed, but as soon as you see the start of spike, blind one of the target... it will kick one ranger out of that particular spike and your blind will be ready for next.

We did this and No, never split, keep em knocked down, blinds, mesmer stuff...try and stay as much out of line of sight as possible.

We survive pretty well.

Another suggestion I would make is make one of your warrior as a hammer warrior.

pigdestroyer · Mar 28, 2006, 03:56 PM // 15:56

thx a lot for the suggestions

wheel · Mar 28, 2006, 04:00 PM // 16:00

use GW Freaks to publish your builds please.

tafy69 · Mar 28, 2006, 04:13 PM // 16:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheel

use GW Freaks to publish your builds please.

eww no. That thing makes each character a page long of text with descriptions of the skills etc etc

wheel · Mar 28, 2006, 04:17 PM // 16:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by tafy69

eww no. That thing makes each character a page long of text with descriptions of the skills etc etc

Er, no. You can turn off descriptions of the skills. It's just as long as typing the skills out manually with a skill per line, except it formats it nicely so that you don't have to do so.

JR · Mar 28, 2006, 04:34 PM // 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheel

Er, no. You can turn off descriptions of the skills. It's just as long as typing the skills out manually with a skill per line, except it formats it nicely so that you don't have to do so.

It also helps you check for attribute breakpoints. Not to mention avoiding stupid mistakes like spelling, dual elites, incorrect attributes... etc.

Well formatted builds is key.

SaintGreg · Mar 28, 2006, 08:21 PM // 20:21

It is a useful tool, but it needs the power to control your own formatting. This will also help if Anet ever allows you to create instantly loadable builds, as you can format exactly how it needs it. The default formatting is not very good looking and is cluttered. The interface needs to accept middle mouse scrolling based on where your mouse is, not where you last clicked (though thats a minor point)

shadex · Mar 29, 2006, 09:24 AM // 09:24

Here are your current options, have the runner be a spell breaker/infuse health monk. If he's fast enough, he can throw up spell breaker, and spam infuse. The key is to know who they are going to target. Send in one of your boon prot monks to start the fight. Toss up a spell breaker, have him RoF himself, and maybie throw on guardian, and be ready to hit infuse health.

Or your other option is to wait for factions. The ritualist has a area effect prot spirit, which basicly means spike teams will be a thing of the past, and fast hits will be the key to victory, to get around mass prot spirit.

JR · Mar 29, 2006, 09:31 AM // 09:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadex

Or your other option is to wait for factions. The ritualist has a area effect prot spirit, which basicly means spike teams will be a thing of the past, and fast hits will be the key to victory, to get around mass prot spirit.

Or you just kill the spirit, or move out of the range of the spirit.